development/pmc_call_notes/2008-05-06.html - gerrit/www.eclipse.org/webtools - Git at Google

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 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
 <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
 <head>
 <title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for May 6, 2008 Conference Call</title>
 </head>
 <body>
 <h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for May 6, 2008 Conference Call</h1>
 <h2>Call Info</h2>
 <p>Tollfree in the US: 877-421-0030 <br />
 Alternate: 770-615-1247<br />
 Access code: 800388# <br />
 <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/f/f6/WTP_status_phone_access.pdf">Full list of phone numbers</a><br />
 <br />
 <a
     href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
 &amp;month=10
 &amp;day=16
 &amp;year=2007
 &amp;hour=11
 &amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=207">Call
 Time: 1500 UTC</a></p>
 <h2>Attendees</h2>
 <h3>PMC Members</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>David Williams: Y</li>
     <li>Naci Dai: N (Regrets)</li>
     <li>Raghunathan Srinivasan: Y</li>
     <li>Neil Hauge: Y</li>
     <li>Tim deBoer: N (Regrets)</li>
     <li>Kaloyan Raev N (Regrets)</li>
 </ul>
 <!--
 <h3>Invited Guests</h3>
 <ul>
 <li>Philippe Ombredanne (ATF): N</li>
 </ul>
 -->
 <h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>
 <ul>
     <li>WTP Guidelines on "Committer Emeritus"?
     <p>Project Leads can decide, and provide a supporting paragraph, themselves, but we suggest the following be
     considered while deciding if someone deserves this status.
     <ul>
         <li>Nominees should have contributed significant code and functions to WTP over a long period of time, such
         as at least a year or two.</li>
         <li>Was active with the Eclipse Community of WTP users and adopters via newsgroups and mailing lists.</li>
         <li>Advanced WTP by giving presentations and writing articles or tutorials.</li>
         <li>Participated in a well rounded fashion in all aspects of a WTP development cycle; requirements, design,
         implementation, testing, performance tuning, bug fixing.</li>
     </ul>
     <p>
     This is a subjective judgement, but following some defensible guidelines such as the above should make it easier to
     make sure that most other Eclipse members would agree with the judgment.
     </p>
     <p><b>Note from meeting:</b> we agreed with these general guidelines as simply being our helping project leads
     know what's expected, but that it's still up to project leads to decide and nominate, and that we don't need any
     other process or PMC review of inidividual nominations.</p>
     <li><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/community/democamp/organizedemocamp.php">Organize an Eclipse DemoCamp
     to Celebrate Ganymede</a> Any interest? Raleigh? (David, Neil?)
     <p><b>Note from meeting:</b> Neil is interested in helping Ginny with RTP one, so will let them discuss. Raghu
     won't be able to sponser or organize one, but will keep his eye open for those in San Jose area to see if he can
     attend or participate.</p>
     </li>
 </ul>
 <h2>Reports, Actions, Issues</h2>
 <h3>Requirements: Raghu Srinivasan</h3>
 <p><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01414.html">Raghu has requested</a> we discuss <a
     href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Web_Tools_Platform_Release_3.0_Requirements">Requirements Document</a> to help him
 "close it out" and begin next.</p>
 <p><b>Note from meeting:</b> Will hold over to next week</p>
 <p>We need Draft release plan, in standard format, for next years release by June (See see <a
     href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301">bug 215301</a>).<br />
 Raghu to lead, and propose an alternative or two. Rumor has it that the June deadline was to have a standard format
 decided, and the "infrastructure" in place to roll them up into a single roadmap document. The "real" plan is expected
 by September. My understanding was there would be a new note to this effect to "project leads list", but haven't seen it
 yet.</p>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Requirements_Lead">WTP Requirements Lead Role</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Education: Naci Dai</h3>
 <p><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01401.html">meeting conflict till end of May</a></p>
 <p>** Need status update</p>
 <ul>
     <li>Phase 1, organize what we have, done by end January.</li>
     <li>Phase 2, self guided new materials. some available by EclipseCon.</li>
     <li>phase 3, shutdown .. scenarios</li>
 </ul>
 <dl>
     <dt>Notes:</dt>
     <dd>Orgainizing "current" now, should be ready by EclipseCon.</dd>
     <dd>Will be organized better for narrowing selection and sorting.</dd>
     <dd>For now, the "database" will be one XML file, with various attributes/qualities to search and sort on.</dd>
 </dl>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Education_Lead">WTP Education Lead</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Planning: David Williams</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>We may need <b>another</b> 2.0.2 patch -- and/or another release!, 2.0.3, to collect these "bad bugs".
     (I've asked Naci to get involved, but haven't heard anything yet.)
     <ul>
         <li><a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=201318">201318</a> [hotbug] EAR Libraries
         container fails to initialize for 2.5 web project</li>
         <li><a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=230256">230256</a> hotbug_request] jst.jee
         JEEDeployableFactory refuses to load ejb3 module</li>
     </ul>
     <li>M7 Status: ready today! Lot's of external churn here at end (in platform, builder, etc.)</li>
     <li>Beginning Review Materials -- thanks for the feedback/comments/additions
     <ul>
         <li><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/iprelated/ip_log.php">IP Log</a>: third party code, list of
         committers, contributors, the newly required "other third party dependencies"</li>
         <li>Coming up: do API summaries? List deprecated functions?</li>
         <li>Need about files, etc., done by 5/15</li>
     </ul>
     </li>
 </ul>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Planning_Lead">WTP Planning Role</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Patches_for_Release_2.0.2">patch process document</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Quality: Neil Hauge</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>Any remaining "automatically close since so old" work we should do now, before release?
     <p><b>Note from meeting:</b> Will hold over till next week, or so. If no decision by then, we will take no
     action, to avoid making "automatic" decisions right before a release, when there would be no time for a response, if
     we err'd.</p>
     </li>
 </ul>
 <h4>Reference:</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality_Lead">WTP Quality Lead</a></li>
     <li>See also <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality">Quality Page</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>WTP User Experience Lead: Kaloyan Raev</h3>
 <ul>
     <li></li>
 </ul>
 <dl>
     <dt>Notes:</dt>
     <dd>
     <ul>
         <li>Working on "use cases" document, for novice user. Should be ready for public review and comments in a
         few weeks.</li>
         <li>Will be attending the UA Walk through meetings, and may propose a WTP one in future (perhaps on facets
         UI).</li>
     </ul>
     </dd>
 </dl>
 <h4>References</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_User_Experience_Lead">WTP User Experience Lead</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Architecture: Tim deBoer</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>Tim will find out specific "advise to give developers (and auto-test teams)" to implement the WTP API
     policy (which tools/build reports to use).</li>
 </ul>
 <dl>
     <dt>Notes:</dt>
     <dd>
     <ul>
         <li>Recommended to restart the protected non-api scans.</li>
         <li>Will not accept new data, for now, but if tooling could be improved to detect/remove additional
         (non-protected) data, then perhaps it'd be useful to show non-api use going down.</li>
         <li>But, an update: Have discovered that current ones are nearly meaningless, since so much as changed, so
         scan's show us as "changing protected API", but it's not protected API any longer.
         <ul>
             <li>Concluded we should still run the scans, as sort of a "unit test" to see if any new, unexpected
             breakage. Run occasionally, that is, such as every milestone?</li>
             <li>We'll need to tell developers to "make use of as best they can" since it includes lots of noise.</li>
             <li>We may look at easy ways to reduce noise ... such as to "diff" with previous, or some particular
             reference report.</li>
             <li>It was suggested at some point we may want to put the work back on adopters to sanitize their data,
             but, that might still require more work on our part to make sure no new usage data was added.</li>
         </ul>
         </li>
     </ul>
     </dd>
 </dl>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Lead">WTP Architecture Lead Role</a></li>
     <li>Tracking meetings and work at <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Working_Group">WTP
     Architecture Working Group</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h2>General business?</h2>
 <!--
 <ul>
     <li>Other projects to watch:
     <ul>
         <li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01400.html">EMFT Texo project proposal</a></li>
         <li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-dev/msg06011.html">Maven Integration</a></li>
     </ul>
     </li>
     <li>Potential resource issues?
     <ul>
         <li>Product plugin for EPP and welcome screen</li>
         <li>Refactoring Doc features (and moving to appropriate sub-projects).</li>
         <li>Refactoring SDK (source and JavaDoc) features/bundles (and moving to appropriate sub-projects)</li>
         <li>Platform/OS coverage for testing and support? -- probably suffices to simply record coverage. Perhaps
         ask for community help.</li>
         <li>Performance Tests -- Kayolan making some progress.</li>
         <li>Needs some JSF features, at least for build</li>
     </ul>
     <dl>
         <dt>Notes:</dt>
         <dd>
         <ul>
             <li>No obvious resource solutions.</li>
         </ul>
         </dd>
     </dl>
     </li>
 </ul>
  -->
 <!--
 <h2>Action Items</h2>
 <h3>To Do</h3>
 <ol>
     <li>Raghu: create a wiki page: a checklist for how to lower the barrier to participation for all projects</li>
     <li>David: create wiki page for 3rd-party requirements</li>
     <li>Naci (changed from David): post instructions and reminders for our "community resources" and presentations
     page, especially, even, for eclipseCon 2007, and Eclipse Summit</li>
 </ol>
 <h3>Done</h3>
 <ol>
     <li>15022010, all: WTP Refactor follow up: Need to update website. Project Leads will need to take ownership
     of their own pages. See <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=201331">bug 201331</a></li>
     <li>David: Reorg CVS. See <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_CVS_Restructuring">CVS Restructuring
     Proposal</a></li>
     <li>David: update our "planning" documents with dates for both Ganymede and Winter maintenance.</li>
     <li>David: Resolved <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Policy_on_Package_Visibility">WTP Policy on
     Package Visibility</a></li>
 </ol>
 -->
 <h2>PMC Calendar</h2>
 <ul>
     <li>Eclipse World deadline has passed (though they sometimes accept late submissions). Who has submitted?
     <p><b>Note from meeting:</b> Raghu and Neil have submitted.
     </li>
 </ul>
 <hr />
 <p>Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.</p>
 <p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
 </body>
 </html>
	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
	<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
	<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
	<head>
	<title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for May 6, 2008 Conference Call</title>
	</head>
	<body>
	<h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for May 6, 2008 Conference Call</h1>
	<h2>Call Info</h2>
	<p>Tollfree in the US: 877-421-0030 <br />
	Alternate: 770-615-1247<br />
	Access code: 800388# <br />
	<a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/f/f6/WTP_status_phone_access.pdf">Full list of phone numbers</a><br />
	<br />
	<a
	href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
	&month=10
	&day=16
	&year=2007
	&hour=11
	&min=0&sec=0&p1=207">Call
	Time: 1500 UTC</a></p>
	<h2>Attendees</h2>
	<h3>PMC Members</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>David Williams: Y</li>
	<li>Naci Dai: N (Regrets)</li>
	<li>Raghunathan Srinivasan: Y</li>
	<li>Neil Hauge: Y</li>
	<li>Tim deBoer: N (Regrets)</li>
	<li>Kaloyan Raev N (Regrets)</li>
	</ul>
	<!--
	<h3>Invited Guests</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>Philippe Ombredanne (ATF): N</li>
	</ul>
	-->
	<h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>
	<ul>
	<li>WTP Guidelines on "Committer Emeritus"?
	<p>Project Leads can decide, and provide a supporting paragraph, themselves, but we suggest the following be
	considered while deciding if someone deserves this status.
	<ul>
	<li>Nominees should have contributed significant code and functions to WTP over a long period of time, such
	as at least a year or two.</li>
	<li>Was active with the Eclipse Community of WTP users and adopters via newsgroups and mailing lists.</li>
	<li>Advanced WTP by giving presentations and writing articles or tutorials.</li>
	<li>Participated in a well rounded fashion in all aspects of a WTP development cycle; requirements, design,
	implementation, testing, performance tuning, bug fixing.</li>
	</ul>
	<p>
	This is a subjective judgement, but following some defensible guidelines such as the above should make it easier to
	make sure that most other Eclipse members would agree with the judgment.
	</p>
	<p><b>Note from meeting:</b> we agreed with these general guidelines as simply being our helping project leads
	know what's expected, but that it's still up to project leads to decide and nominate, and that we don't need any
	other process or PMC review of inidividual nominations.</p>
	<li><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/community/democamp/organizedemocamp.php">Organize an Eclipse DemoCamp
	to Celebrate Ganymede</a> Any interest? Raleigh? (David, Neil?)
	<p><b>Note from meeting:</b> Neil is interested in helping Ginny with RTP one, so will let them discuss. Raghu
	won't be able to sponser or organize one, but will keep his eye open for those in San Jose area to see if he can
	attend or participate.</p>
	</li>
	</ul>
	<h2>Reports, Actions, Issues</h2>
	<h3>Requirements: Raghu Srinivasan</h3>
	<p><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01414.html">Raghu has requested</a> we discuss <a
	href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Web_Tools_Platform_Release_3.0_Requirements">Requirements Document</a> to help him
	"close it out" and begin next.</p>
	<p><b>Note from meeting:</b> Will hold over to next week</p>
	<p>We need Draft release plan, in standard format, for next years release by June (See see <a
	href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301">bug 215301</a>).<br />
	Raghu to lead, and propose an alternative or two. Rumor has it that the June deadline was to have a standard format
	decided, and the "infrastructure" in place to roll them up into a single roadmap document. The "real" plan is expected
	by September. My understanding was there would be a new note to this effect to "project leads list", but haven't seen it
	yet.</p>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Requirements_Lead">WTP Requirements Lead Role</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Education: Naci Dai</h3>
	<p><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01401.html">meeting conflict till end of May</a></p>
	<p>** Need status update</p>
	<ul>
	<li>Phase 1, organize what we have, done by end January.</li>
	<li>Phase 2, self guided new materials. some available by EclipseCon.</li>
	<li>phase 3, shutdown .. scenarios</li>
	</ul>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>Orgainizing "current" now, should be ready by EclipseCon.</dd>
	<dd>Will be organized better for narrowing selection and sorting.</dd>
	<dd>For now, the "database" will be one XML file, with various attributes/qualities to search and sort on.</dd>
	</dl>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Education_Lead">WTP Education Lead</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Planning: David Williams</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>We may need <b>another</b> 2.0.2 patch -- and/or another release!, 2.0.3, to collect these "bad bugs".
	(I've asked Naci to get involved, but haven't heard anything yet.)
	<ul>
	<li><a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=201318">201318</a> [hotbug] EAR Libraries
	container fails to initialize for 2.5 web project</li>
	<li><a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=230256">230256</a> hotbug_request] jst.jee
	JEEDeployableFactory refuses to load ejb3 module</li>
	</ul>
	<li>M7 Status: ready today! Lot's of external churn here at end (in platform, builder, etc.)</li>
	<li>Beginning Review Materials -- thanks for the feedback/comments/additions
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/iprelated/ip_log.php">IP Log</a>: third party code, list of
	committers, contributors, the newly required "other third party dependencies"</li>
	<li>Coming up: do API summaries? List deprecated functions?</li>
	<li>Need about files, etc., done by 5/15</li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	</ul>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Planning_Lead">WTP Planning Role</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Patches_for_Release_2.0.2">patch process document</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Quality: Neil Hauge</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>Any remaining "automatically close since so old" work we should do now, before release?
	<p><b>Note from meeting:</b> Will hold over till next week, or so. If no decision by then, we will take no
	action, to avoid making "automatic" decisions right before a release, when there would be no time for a response, if
	we err'd.</p>
	</li>
	</ul>
	<h4>Reference:</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality_Lead">WTP Quality Lead</a></li>
	<li>See also <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality">Quality Page</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>WTP User Experience Lead: Kaloyan Raev</h3>
	<ul>
	<li></li>
	</ul>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>
	<ul>
	<li>Working on "use cases" document, for novice user. Should be ready for public review and comments in a
	few weeks.</li>
	<li>Will be attending the UA Walk through meetings, and may propose a WTP one in future (perhaps on facets
	UI).</li>
	</ul>
	</dd>
	</dl>
	<h4>References</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_User_Experience_Lead">WTP User Experience Lead</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Architecture: Tim deBoer</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>Tim will find out specific "advise to give developers (and auto-test teams)" to implement the WTP API
	policy (which tools/build reports to use).</li>
	</ul>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>
	<ul>
	<li>Recommended to restart the protected non-api scans.</li>
	<li>Will not accept new data, for now, but if tooling could be improved to detect/remove additional
	(non-protected) data, then perhaps it'd be useful to show non-api use going down.</li>
	<li>But, an update: Have discovered that current ones are nearly meaningless, since so much as changed, so
	scan's show us as "changing protected API", but it's not protected API any longer.
	<ul>
	<li>Concluded we should still run the scans, as sort of a "unit test" to see if any new, unexpected
	breakage. Run occasionally, that is, such as every milestone?</li>
	<li>We'll need to tell developers to "make use of as best they can" since it includes lots of noise.</li>
	<li>We may look at easy ways to reduce noise ... such as to "diff" with previous, or some particular
	reference report.</li>
	<li>It was suggested at some point we may want to put the work back on adopters to sanitize their data,
	but, that might still require more work on our part to make sure no new usage data was added.</li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	</ul>
	</dd>
	</dl>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Lead">WTP Architecture Lead Role</a></li>
	<li>Tracking meetings and work at <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Working_Group">WTP
	Architecture Working Group</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h2>General business?</h2>
	<!--
	<ul>
	<li>Other projects to watch:
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01400.html">EMFT Texo project proposal</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-dev/msg06011.html">Maven Integration</a></li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	<li>Potential resource issues?
	<ul>
	<li>Product plugin for EPP and welcome screen</li>
	<li>Refactoring Doc features (and moving to appropriate sub-projects).</li>
	<li>Refactoring SDK (source and JavaDoc) features/bundles (and moving to appropriate sub-projects)</li>
	<li>Platform/OS coverage for testing and support? -- probably suffices to simply record coverage. Perhaps
	ask for community help.</li>
	<li>Performance Tests -- Kayolan making some progress.</li>
	<li>Needs some JSF features, at least for build</li>
	</ul>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>
	<ul>
	<li>No obvious resource solutions.</li>
	</ul>
	</dd>
	</dl>
	</li>
	</ul>
	-->
	<!--
	<h2>Action Items</h2>
	<h3>To Do</h3>
	<ol>
	<li>Raghu: create a wiki page: a checklist for how to lower the barrier to participation for all projects</li>
	<li>David: create wiki page for 3rd-party requirements</li>
	<li>Naci (changed from David): post instructions and reminders for our "community resources" and presentations
	page, especially, even, for eclipseCon 2007, and Eclipse Summit</li>
	</ol>
	<h3>Done</h3>
	<ol>
	<li>15022010, all: WTP Refactor follow up: Need to update website. Project Leads will need to take ownership
	of their own pages. See <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=201331">bug 201331</a></li>
	<li>David: Reorg CVS. See <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_CVS_Restructuring">CVS Restructuring
	Proposal</a></li>
	<li>David: update our "planning" documents with dates for both Ganymede and Winter maintenance.</li>
	<li>David: Resolved <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Policy_on_Package_Visibility">WTP Policy on
	Package Visibility</a></li>
	</ol>
	-->
	<h2>PMC Calendar</h2>
	<ul>
	<li>Eclipse World deadline has passed (though they sometimes accept late submissions). Who has submitted?
	<p><b>Note from meeting:</b> Raghu and Neil have submitted.
	</li>
	</ul>
	<hr />
	<p>Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.</p>
	<p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
	</body>
	</html>