development/pmc_call_notes/2011-03-01.html - gerrit/www.eclipse.org/webtools - Git at Google

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 	<h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for March 01, 2011 Conference Call</h1>
 	<h2>Call Info</h2>
 	<p>
 		Toll free (in US and Canada): 888-426-6840 <br /> Access code:
 		6460142# <br /> Caller pay alternative number: 215-861-6239<br /> <a
 			href="https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=6460142&accessNumber=2158616239">Full
 			list of global access numbers</a><br /> <br /> <a
 			href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
 &amp;month=03
 &amp;day=01
 &amp;year=2011
 &amp;hour=11
 &amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=207">Call
 			Time: 11:00 AM Eastern</a>
 	</p>


 	<h2>Attendees</h2>
 	<h3>PMC Members</h3>
 	<ul>
 		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">David
 			Williams: Y</li>
 		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Naci Dai:
 			N</li>
 		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Raghunathan
 			Srinivasan: Y</li>
 		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Neil
 			Hauge: Y</li>
 		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Tim
 			deBoer: R</li>
 		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Kaloyan
 			Raev: Y</li>
 		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Chuck
 			Bridgham: Y</li>
 	</ul>


 	<h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>

 	<h3>Welcome Chuck ...</h3>
 	<p>Chuck to run Thursday status meetings</p>
 	<p>Time to revamp "quality focus" (make sure patches addressed
 		quickly, etc.)?</p>
 	<p>
 		Instead of wiki queries, should we revive bugzilla queries from PHP?
 		See <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=295008">bug
 			295008</a> which references a very old <a
 			href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/development/bugs/bugs.php">bug
 			summary page</a>
 	</p>

 	<p style="font-style: italic;">Neil agreed we could use some focus
 		on triaging bugs/patches. He'll look into php queries.</p>

 	<h3>How are WTP Project work/roles distributed, especially releng?
 		Equitable? Diverse?</h3>
 	<p>Models of sharing releng work:</p>
 	<ul>
 		<li>Horizontal: Each project on their own.</li>
 		<li>Veritacal: One reponsible for builds. One responsible for
 			unit tests. One responsible for EPP Packages.</li>
 	</ul>
 	<p style="font-style: italic;">Unexpectedly lively discussion. Some
 		unordered points:</p>
 	<ul>
 		<li>General feeling that we'd have to move to tycho/maven to be
 			easy enough for anyone to do. (Common misconception: they all have
 			PDE build, at their core, right? Primarily differs on how pre-reqs
 			are specified and obtained.)</li>
 		<li>Some concern that tycho/maven is easy to get started with,
 			but maybe hard to change, or adopt for production, if needed. (i.e.
 			like much software, if easy to use, hard to deviate, sort of have to
 			take it as is. Possibly.)</li>
 		<li>We should list requirements, so we know concretely what is
 			needed; such as "signed", qualifiers change only if and only if code
 			(content) changes.</li>
 		<li>Kaloyan will "educate" us based on his experiences with
 			Libra, via blog posts, eventually meeting with committers.</li>
 		<li>Some interest in moving to GIT ... some not :) ... good point
 			was it might help to "have a plan". With dates. acceptance criteria,
 			etc.</li>
 		<li>Only concrete advantage (to us) to move to GIT named was that
 			it allows use of Gerrit.</li>
 		<li>Point made that others can move (drive) to a
 			hudson/tycho/maven build, and once ready, simply stop the CC based
 			builds. This has advantage of getting others involved in responsible
 			roles; not having current releng be the bottleneck.</li>
 		<li>Overall, seemed to be the opinon to have project-based
 			responsibility. Though is was mentioned there are advantage to have a
 			unified build/release ... not sure how to do both. That is, while
 			technically is it possible, but unsure what unanticipated problems
 			would creep in.</li>
 		<li>While not discussed during meeting (I thought of after
 			meeting) the project based responsibility is not currently working
 			... no one pays attention to versioning errors, for example, until
 			reminded ... so how can we incrementally move to project based
 			responsibility?</li>
 		<li>Could/should currently divide builds and tests. Maybe go
 			further and have seperate page for each project/feature. Maybe that'd
 			help encourage project level reponsibility?</li>
 	</ul>
 	<h3>Request for late addition of Libra to Indigo</h3>
 	<p style="font-style: italic;">Approved. Kaloyan to send note to PC
 		list</p>
 	<p>Here's the proposed request to present to Planning Council:</p>

 	<p>The Libra project would like to join the Indigo Simultaneous
 		Release. Libra will deliver two features for Indigo: WAR Products and
 		OSGi Bundle Facet. The IP process for both of them is completed: CQ
 		4837 [1] and CQ 4844 [2].</p>
 	<p>The WAR Products tooling has been originally developed to make
 		the deployment of RAP applications easier. However, the tooling itself
 		is not RAP specific and can be used for deploying any Server-Side
 		Equinox applications. Since the RAP project is part of the Indigo
 		Release, it really makes sense to have the WAR Products tooling in
 		Indigo too. It will also benefit all developers of Server-Side Equinox
 		applications. More details about WAR Products are available on the
 		latest blog of Holger Staudacher [3]. Installation and usage
 		instructions are available on the wiki page [4].</p>
 	<p>The OSGi Bundle Facet feature links together the PDE and WTP
 		tooling. It enable the WTP project wizards to create OSGi bundles
 		projects, like Web Application Bundles and Persistence Bundles. It's
 		the very first step towards providing OSGi tooling for enterprise
 		applications. This feature will be a great complement to the PDE and
 		WTP project that are in the Simultaneous Release since the very
 		beginning. This feature is very well demonstrated in a short
 		screencast [5]. We are also in the process of writing a Getting
 		Started guide [6].</p>
 	<p>Libra is still an incubating project. We think that including it
 		in the Indigo Release will keep up the momentum and participation in
 		the project to have this concrete goal to aim for. It will also
 		increase community awareness and participation, if it can be in the
 		common Indigo repository. We are confident that we can fulfill the
 		requirements for the Simultaneous Release train. The limited scope of
 		the first release (the above two features) enable us to quickly do all
 		required changes. Our efforts are tracked in bug 338060 [7].</p>
 	<p>This request has been reviewed and approved by the WTP PMC at
 		the 3/1 meeting.</p>
 	<pre>
 [1] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4837
 [2] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4844
 [3] http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/2011/02/02/equinoxrap-war-products-has-moved-hello-eclipse-libra/
 [4] http://wiki.eclipse.org/RAP/Equinox_WAR_products
 [5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r09q9a4Qaas
 [6] https://bugs.eclipse.org/338060
 [7] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Libra/Getting_Started
 </pre>

 	<h3>Pending CQ</h3>
 	<p>
 		<a href="https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4830">CQ
 			4830 EJB Timer</a> Waiting for Kaloyan.
 	</p>
 	<p style="font-style: italic;">Kaloyan will attend to this week.</p>
 	<h3>JPA Diagram Editor</h3>
 	<p>Do we have agreement (or a plan?) on what to do with Graphiti?
 		'include' or 'require'?</p>
 	<p style="font-style: italic;">Should be "requires" unless reason
 		not to. Neil will discuss with Tran to a) see if reasons b) see if
 		work is feasible for M6.</p>
 	<h3>Be sure newly renamed JPT feature chagnes are incorporated
 		into Java EE IDE package feature, if needed</h3>
 	<p>org.eclipse.epp.package.jee.feature</p>
 	<p>/cvsroot/technology</p>
 	<p>org.eclipse.epp/packages/org.eclipse.epp.package.jee.feature</p>
 	<p style="font-style: italic;">Neil will discuss with Tran to see
 		what needs to be changed, if anything</p>
 	<h3>Maven discussion?</h3>
 	<p>Who, when, how much?</p>
 	<p style="font-style: italic;">Chuck will initiate phone
 		calls/discussions. Seemed to be desire (and people) to contribute ...
 		but post Indigo</p>
 	<h2>Future Agenda items</h2>
 	<!--  <ul style="text-indent: 5em; font-style: italic;"> -->
 	<ul style="font-style: italic;">

 		<li>Retrospect Helios quick maintenance release. Does it mean we
 			weren't ready to release? Any way to improve timing in future?</li>
 		<li>Disuss our model and assignments of "PMC Roles". Do they
 			still make sense?</li>


 	</ul>
 	<h2>References</h2>
 	<ul>

 		<li><a
 			href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Team_thoughts_on_continuous_improvement_32">Continuous
 				Improvement Notes</a>
 		</li>


 	</ul>


 	<hr />
 	<p>
 		Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.
 	</p>
 	<p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
 </body>
 </html>
	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
	<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
	<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
	<head>
	<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />
	<title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for March 01, 2011 Conference Call</title>
	</head>
	<body>
	<h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for March 01, 2011 Conference Call</h1>
	<h2>Call Info</h2>
	<p>
	Toll free (in US and Canada): 888-426-6840 <br /> Access code:
	6460142# <br /> Caller pay alternative number: 215-861-6239<br /> <a
	href="https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=6460142&accessNumber=2158616239">Full
	list of global access numbers</a><br /> <br /> <a
	href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
	&month=03
	&day=01
	&year=2011
	&hour=11
	&min=0&sec=0&p1=207">Call
	Time: 11:00 AM Eastern</a>
	</p>


	<h2>Attendees</h2>
	<h3>PMC Members</h3>
	<ul>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">David
	Williams: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Naci Dai:
	N</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Raghunathan
	Srinivasan: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Neil
	Hauge: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Tim
	deBoer: R</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Kaloyan
	Raev: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Chuck
	Bridgham: Y</li>
	</ul>


	<h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>

	<h3>Welcome Chuck ...</h3>
	<p>Chuck to run Thursday status meetings</p>
	<p>Time to revamp "quality focus" (make sure patches addressed
	quickly, etc.)?</p>
	<p>
	Instead of wiki queries, should we revive bugzilla queries from PHP?
	See <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=295008">bug
	295008</a> which references a very old <a
	href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/development/bugs/bugs.php">bug
	summary page</a>
	</p>

	<p style="font-style: italic;">Neil agreed we could use some focus
	on triaging bugs/patches. He'll look into php queries.</p>

	<h3>How are WTP Project work/roles distributed, especially releng?
	Equitable? Diverse?</h3>
	<p>Models of sharing releng work:</p>
	<ul>
	<li>Horizontal: Each project on their own.</li>
	<li>Veritacal: One reponsible for builds. One responsible for
	unit tests. One responsible for EPP Packages.</li>
	</ul>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Unexpectedly lively discussion. Some
	unordered points:</p>
	<ul>
	<li>General feeling that we'd have to move to tycho/maven to be
	easy enough for anyone to do. (Common misconception: they all have
	PDE build, at their core, right? Primarily differs on how pre-reqs
	are specified and obtained.)</li>
	<li>Some concern that tycho/maven is easy to get started with,
	but maybe hard to change, or adopt for production, if needed. (i.e.
	like much software, if easy to use, hard to deviate, sort of have to
	take it as is. Possibly.)</li>
	<li>We should list requirements, so we know concretely what is
	needed; such as "signed", qualifiers change only if and only if code
	(content) changes.</li>
	<li>Kaloyan will "educate" us based on his experiences with
	Libra, via blog posts, eventually meeting with committers.</li>
	<li>Some interest in moving to GIT ... some not :) ... good point
	was it might help to "have a plan". With dates. acceptance criteria,
	etc.</li>
	<li>Only concrete advantage (to us) to move to GIT named was that
	it allows use of Gerrit.</li>
	<li>Point made that others can move (drive) to a
	hudson/tycho/maven build, and once ready, simply stop the CC based
	builds. This has advantage of getting others involved in responsible
	roles; not having current releng be the bottleneck.</li>
	<li>Overall, seemed to be the opinon to have project-based
	responsibility. Though is was mentioned there are advantage to have a
	unified build/release ... not sure how to do both. That is, while
	technically is it possible, but unsure what unanticipated problems
	would creep in.</li>
	<li>While not discussed during meeting (I thought of after
	meeting) the project based responsibility is not currently working
	... no one pays attention to versioning errors, for example, until
	reminded ... so how can we incrementally move to project based
	responsibility?</li>
	<li>Could/should currently divide builds and tests. Maybe go
	further and have seperate page for each project/feature. Maybe that'd
	help encourage project level reponsibility?</li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Request for late addition of Libra to Indigo</h3>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Approved. Kaloyan to send note to PC
	list</p>
	<p>Here's the proposed request to present to Planning Council:</p>

	<p>The Libra project would like to join the Indigo Simultaneous
	Release. Libra will deliver two features for Indigo: WAR Products and
	OSGi Bundle Facet. The IP process for both of them is completed: CQ
	4837 [1] and CQ 4844 [2].</p>
	<p>The WAR Products tooling has been originally developed to make
	the deployment of RAP applications easier. However, the tooling itself
	is not RAP specific and can be used for deploying any Server-Side
	Equinox applications. Since the RAP project is part of the Indigo
	Release, it really makes sense to have the WAR Products tooling in
	Indigo too. It will also benefit all developers of Server-Side Equinox
	applications. More details about WAR Products are available on the
	latest blog of Holger Staudacher [3]. Installation and usage
	instructions are available on the wiki page [4].</p>
	<p>The OSGi Bundle Facet feature links together the PDE and WTP
	tooling. It enable the WTP project wizards to create OSGi bundles
	projects, like Web Application Bundles and Persistence Bundles. It's
	the very first step towards providing OSGi tooling for enterprise
	applications. This feature will be a great complement to the PDE and
	WTP project that are in the Simultaneous Release since the very
	beginning. This feature is very well demonstrated in a short
	screencast [5]. We are also in the process of writing a Getting
	Started guide [6].</p>
	<p>Libra is still an incubating project. We think that including it
	in the Indigo Release will keep up the momentum and participation in
	the project to have this concrete goal to aim for. It will also
	increase community awareness and participation, if it can be in the
	common Indigo repository. We are confident that we can fulfill the
	requirements for the Simultaneous Release train. The limited scope of
	the first release (the above two features) enable us to quickly do all
	required changes. Our efforts are tracked in bug 338060 [7].</p>
	<p>This request has been reviewed and approved by the WTP PMC at
	the 3/1 meeting.</p>
	<pre>
	[1] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4837
	[2] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4844
	[3] http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/2011/02/02/equinoxrap-war-products-has-moved-hello-eclipse-libra/
	[4] http://wiki.eclipse.org/RAP/Equinox_WAR_products
	[5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r09q9a4Qaas
	[6] https://bugs.eclipse.org/338060
	[7] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Libra/Getting_Started
	</pre>

	<h3>Pending CQ</h3>
	<p>
	<a href="https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4830">CQ
	4830 EJB Timer</a> Waiting for Kaloyan.
	</p>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Kaloyan will attend to this week.</p>
	<h3>JPA Diagram Editor</h3>
	<p>Do we have agreement (or a plan?) on what to do with Graphiti?
	'include' or 'require'?</p>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Should be "requires" unless reason
	not to. Neil will discuss with Tran to a) see if reasons b) see if
	work is feasible for M6.</p>
	<h3>Be sure newly renamed JPT feature chagnes are incorporated
	into Java EE IDE package feature, if needed</h3>
	<p>org.eclipse.epp.package.jee.feature</p>
	<p>/cvsroot/technology</p>
	<p>org.eclipse.epp/packages/org.eclipse.epp.package.jee.feature</p>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Neil will discuss with Tran to see
	what needs to be changed, if anything</p>
	<h3>Maven discussion?</h3>
	<p>Who, when, how much?</p>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Chuck will initiate phone
	calls/discussions. Seemed to be desire (and people) to contribute ...
	but post Indigo</p>
	<h2>Future Agenda items</h2>
	<!-- <ul style="text-indent: 5em; font-style: italic;"> -->
	<ul style="font-style: italic;">

	<li>Retrospect Helios quick maintenance release. Does it mean we
	weren't ready to release? Any way to improve timing in future?</li>
	<li>Disuss our model and assignments of "PMC Roles". Do they
	still make sense?</li>


	</ul>
	<h2>References</h2>
	<ul>

	<li><a
	href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Team_thoughts_on_continuous_improvement_32">Continuous
	Improvement Notes</a>
	</li>


	</ul>


	<hr />
	<p>
	Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.
	</p>
	<p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
	</body>
	</html>