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            <title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for March 01, 2011 Conference Call</title>

            
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            <body>

            
            	<h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for March 01, 2011 Conference Call</h1>

            
            	<h2>Call Info</h2>

            
            	<p>

            
            		Toll free (in US and Canada): 888-426-6840 <br /> Access code:

            
            		6460142# <br /> Caller pay alternative number: 215-861-6239<br /> <a

            
            			href="https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=6460142&accessNumber=2158616239">Full

            
            			list of global access numbers</a><br /> <br /> <a

            
            			href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107

            
            &amp;month=03

            
            &amp;day=01

            
            &amp;year=2011

            
            &amp;hour=11

            
            &amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=207">Call

            
            			Time: 11:00 AM Eastern</a>

            
            	</p>


            	<h2>Attendees</h2>

            
            	<h3>PMC Members</h3>

            
            	<ul>

            
            		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">David

            
            			Williams: Y</li>

            
            		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Naci Dai:

            
            			N</li>

            
            		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Raghunathan

            
            			Srinivasan: Y</li>

            
            		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Neil

            
            			Hauge: Y</li>

            
            		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Tim

            
            			deBoer: R</li>

            
            		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Kaloyan

            
            			Raev: Y</li>

            
            		<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Chuck

            
            			Bridgham: Y</li>

            
            	</ul>


            	<h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>


            	<h3>Welcome Chuck ...</h3>

            
            	<p>Chuck to run Thursday status meetings</p>

            
            	<p>Time to revamp "quality focus" (make sure patches addressed

            
            		quickly, etc.)?</p>

            
            	<p>

            
            		Instead of wiki queries, should we revive bugzilla queries from PHP?

            
            		See <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=295008">bug

            
            			295008</a> which references a very old <a

            
            			href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/development/bugs/bugs.php">bug

            
            			summary page</a>

            
            	</p>


            	<p style="font-style: italic;">Neil agreed we could use some focus

            
            		on triaging bugs/patches. He'll look into php queries.</p>


            	<h3>How are WTP Project work/roles distributed, especially releng?

            
            		Equitable? Diverse?</h3>

            
            	<p>Models of sharing releng work:</p>

            
            	<ul>

            
            		<li>Horizontal: Each project on their own.</li>

            
            		<li>Veritacal: One reponsible for builds. One responsible for

            
            			unit tests. One responsible for EPP Packages.</li>

            
            	</ul>

            
            	<p style="font-style: italic;">Unexpectedly lively discussion. Some

            
            		unordered points:</p>

            
            	<ul>

            
            		<li>General feeling that we'd have to move to tycho/maven to be

            
            			easy enough for anyone to do. (Common misconception: they all have

            
            			PDE build, at their core, right? Primarily differs on how pre-reqs

            
            			are specified and obtained.)</li>

            
            		<li>Some concern that tycho/maven is easy to get started with,

            
            			but maybe hard to change, or adopt for production, if needed. (i.e.

            
            			like much software, if easy to use, hard to deviate, sort of have to

            
            			take it as is. Possibly.)</li>

            
            		<li>We should list requirements, so we know concretely what is

            
            			needed; such as "signed", qualifiers change only if and only if code

            
            			(content) changes.</li>

            
            		<li>Kaloyan will "educate" us based on his experiences with

            
            			Libra, via blog posts, eventually meeting with committers.</li>

            
            		<li>Some interest in moving to GIT ... some not :) ... good point

            
            			was it might help to "have a plan". With dates. acceptance criteria,

            
            			etc.</li>

            
            		<li>Only concrete advantage (to us) to move to GIT named was that

            
            			it allows use of Gerrit.</li>

            
            		<li>Point made that others can move (drive) to a

            
            			hudson/tycho/maven build, and once ready, simply stop the CC based

            
            			builds. This has advantage of getting others involved in responsible

            
            			roles; not having current releng be the bottleneck.</li>

            
            		<li>Overall, seemed to be the opinon to have project-based

            
            			responsibility. Though is was mentioned there are advantage to have a

            
            			unified build/release ... not sure how to do both. That is, while

            
            			technically is it possible, but unsure what unanticipated problems

            
            			would creep in.</li>

            
            		<li>While not discussed during meeting (I thought of after

            
            			meeting) the project based responsibility is not currently working

            
            			... no one pays attention to versioning errors, for example, until

            
            			reminded ... so how can we incrementally move to project based

            
            			responsibility?</li>

            
            		<li>Could/should currently divide builds and tests. Maybe go

            
            			further and have seperate page for each project/feature. Maybe that'd

            
            			help encourage project level reponsibility?</li>

            
            	</ul>

            
            	<h3>Request for late addition of Libra to Indigo</h3>

            
            	<p style="font-style: italic;">Approved. Kaloyan to send note to PC

            
            		list</p>

            
            	<p>Here's the proposed request to present to Planning Council:</p>


            	<p>The Libra project would like to join the Indigo Simultaneous

            
            		Release. Libra will deliver two features for Indigo: WAR Products and

            
            		OSGi Bundle Facet. The IP process for both of them is completed: CQ

            
            		4837 [1] and CQ 4844 [2].</p>

            
            	<p>The WAR Products tooling has been originally developed to make

            
            		the deployment of RAP applications easier. However, the tooling itself

            
            		is not RAP specific and can be used for deploying any Server-Side

            
            		Equinox applications. Since the RAP project is part of the Indigo

            
            		Release, it really makes sense to have the WAR Products tooling in

            
            		Indigo too. It will also benefit all developers of Server-Side Equinox

            
            		applications. More details about WAR Products are available on the

            
            		latest blog of Holger Staudacher [3]. Installation and usage

            
            		instructions are available on the wiki page [4].</p>

            
            	<p>The OSGi Bundle Facet feature links together the PDE and WTP

            
            		tooling. It enable the WTP project wizards to create OSGi bundles

            
            		projects, like Web Application Bundles and Persistence Bundles. It's

            
            		the very first step towards providing OSGi tooling for enterprise

            
            		applications. This feature will be a great complement to the PDE and

            
            		WTP project that are in the Simultaneous Release since the very

            
            		beginning. This feature is very well demonstrated in a short

            
            		screencast [5]. We are also in the process of writing a Getting

            
            		Started guide [6].</p>

            
            	<p>Libra is still an incubating project. We think that including it

            
            		in the Indigo Release will keep up the momentum and participation in

            
            		the project to have this concrete goal to aim for. It will also

            
            		increase community awareness and participation, if it can be in the

            
            		common Indigo repository. We are confident that we can fulfill the

            
            		requirements for the Simultaneous Release train. The limited scope of

            
            		the first release (the above two features) enable us to quickly do all

            
            		required changes. Our efforts are tracked in bug 338060 [7].</p>

            
            	<p>This request has been reviewed and approved by the WTP PMC at

            
            		the 3/1 meeting.</p>

            
            	<pre>

            
            [1] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4837

            
            [2] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4844

            
            [3] http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/2011/02/02/equinoxrap-war-products-has-moved-hello-eclipse-libra/

            
            [4] http://wiki.eclipse.org/RAP/Equinox_WAR_products

            
            [5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r09q9a4Qaas

            
            [6] https://bugs.eclipse.org/338060

            
            [7] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Libra/Getting_Started

            
            </pre>


            	<h3>Pending CQ</h3>

            
            	<p>

            
            		<a href="https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4830">CQ

            
            			4830 EJB Timer</a> Waiting for Kaloyan.

            
            	</p>

            
            	<p style="font-style: italic;">Kaloyan will attend to this week.</p>

            
            	<h3>JPA Diagram Editor</h3>

            
            	<p>Do we have agreement (or a plan?) on what to do with Graphiti?

            
            		'include' or 'require'?</p>

            
            	<p style="font-style: italic;">Should be "requires" unless reason

            
            		not to. Neil will discuss with Tran to a) see if reasons b) see if

            
            		work is feasible for M6.</p>

            
            	<h3>Be sure newly renamed JPT feature chagnes are incorporated

            
            		into Java EE IDE package feature, if needed</h3>

            
            	<p>org.eclipse.epp.package.jee.feature</p>

            
            	<p>/cvsroot/technology</p>

            
            	<p>org.eclipse.epp/packages/org.eclipse.epp.package.jee.feature</p>

            
            	<p style="font-style: italic;">Neil will discuss with Tran to see

            
            		what needs to be changed, if anything</p>

            
            	<h3>Maven discussion?</h3>

            
            	<p>Who, when, how much?</p>

            
            	<p style="font-style: italic;">Chuck will initiate phone

            
            		calls/discussions. Seemed to be desire (and people) to contribute ...

            
            		but post Indigo</p>

            
            	<h2>Future Agenda items</h2>

            
            	<!--  <ul style="text-indent: 5em; font-style: italic;"> -->

            
            	<ul style="font-style: italic;">


            		<li>Retrospect Helios quick maintenance release. Does it mean we

            
            			weren't ready to release? Any way to improve timing in future?</li>

            
            		<li>Disuss our model and assignments of "PMC Roles". Do they

            
            			still make sense?</li>


            	</ul>

            
            	<h2>References</h2>

            
            	<ul>


            		<li><a

            
            			href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Team_thoughts_on_continuous_improvement_32">Continuous

            
            				Improvement Notes</a>

            
            		</li>


            	</ul>


            	<hr />

            
            	<p>

            
            		Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.

            
            	</p>

            
            	<p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>

            
            </body>

            
            </html>
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	<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
	<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
	<head>
	<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />
	<title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for March 01, 2011 Conference Call</title>
	</head>
	<body>
	<h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for March 01, 2011 Conference Call</h1>
	<h2>Call Info</h2>
	<p>
	Toll free (in US and Canada): 888-426-6840 <br /> Access code:
	6460142# <br /> Caller pay alternative number: 215-861-6239<br /> <a
	href="https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=6460142&accessNumber=2158616239">Full
	list of global access numbers</a><br /> <br /> <a
	href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
	&month=03
	&day=01
	&year=2011
	&hour=11
	&min=0&sec=0&p1=207">Call
	Time: 11:00 AM Eastern</a>
	</p>


	<h2>Attendees</h2>
	<h3>PMC Members</h3>
	<ul>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">David
	Williams: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Naci Dai:
	N</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Raghunathan
	Srinivasan: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Neil
	Hauge: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Tim
	deBoer: R</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Kaloyan
	Raev: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Chuck
	Bridgham: Y</li>
	</ul>


	<h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>

	<h3>Welcome Chuck ...</h3>
	<p>Chuck to run Thursday status meetings</p>
	<p>Time to revamp "quality focus" (make sure patches addressed
	quickly, etc.)?</p>
	<p>
	Instead of wiki queries, should we revive bugzilla queries from PHP?
	See <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=295008">bug
	295008</a> which references a very old <a
	href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/development/bugs/bugs.php">bug
	summary page</a>
	</p>

	<p style="font-style: italic;">Neil agreed we could use some focus
	on triaging bugs/patches. He'll look into php queries.</p>

	<h3>How are WTP Project work/roles distributed, especially releng?
	Equitable? Diverse?</h3>
	<p>Models of sharing releng work:</p>
	<ul>
	<li>Horizontal: Each project on their own.</li>
	<li>Veritacal: One reponsible for builds. One responsible for
	unit tests. One responsible for EPP Packages.</li>
	</ul>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Unexpectedly lively discussion. Some
	unordered points:</p>
	<ul>
	<li>General feeling that we'd have to move to tycho/maven to be
	easy enough for anyone to do. (Common misconception: they all have
	PDE build, at their core, right? Primarily differs on how pre-reqs
	are specified and obtained.)</li>
	<li>Some concern that tycho/maven is easy to get started with,
	but maybe hard to change, or adopt for production, if needed. (i.e.
	like much software, if easy to use, hard to deviate, sort of have to
	take it as is. Possibly.)</li>
	<li>We should list requirements, so we know concretely what is
	needed; such as "signed", qualifiers change only if and only if code
	(content) changes.</li>
	<li>Kaloyan will "educate" us based on his experiences with
	Libra, via blog posts, eventually meeting with committers.</li>
	<li>Some interest in moving to GIT ... some not :) ... good point
	was it might help to "have a plan". With dates. acceptance criteria,
	etc.</li>
	<li>Only concrete advantage (to us) to move to GIT named was that
	it allows use of Gerrit.</li>
	<li>Point made that others can move (drive) to a
	hudson/tycho/maven build, and once ready, simply stop the CC based
	builds. This has advantage of getting others involved in responsible
	roles; not having current releng be the bottleneck.</li>
	<li>Overall, seemed to be the opinon to have project-based
	responsibility. Though is was mentioned there are advantage to have a
	unified build/release ... not sure how to do both. That is, while
	technically is it possible, but unsure what unanticipated problems
	would creep in.</li>
	<li>While not discussed during meeting (I thought of after
	meeting) the project based responsibility is not currently working
	... no one pays attention to versioning errors, for example, until
	reminded ... so how can we incrementally move to project based
	responsibility?</li>
	<li>Could/should currently divide builds and tests. Maybe go
	further and have seperate page for each project/feature. Maybe that'd
	help encourage project level reponsibility?</li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Request for late addition of Libra to Indigo</h3>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Approved. Kaloyan to send note to PC
	list</p>
	<p>Here's the proposed request to present to Planning Council:</p>

	<p>The Libra project would like to join the Indigo Simultaneous
	Release. Libra will deliver two features for Indigo: WAR Products and
	OSGi Bundle Facet. The IP process for both of them is completed: CQ
	4837 [1] and CQ 4844 [2].</p>
	<p>The WAR Products tooling has been originally developed to make
	the deployment of RAP applications easier. However, the tooling itself
	is not RAP specific and can be used for deploying any Server-Side
	Equinox applications. Since the RAP project is part of the Indigo
	Release, it really makes sense to have the WAR Products tooling in
	Indigo too. It will also benefit all developers of Server-Side Equinox
	applications. More details about WAR Products are available on the
	latest blog of Holger Staudacher [3]. Installation and usage
	instructions are available on the wiki page [4].</p>
	<p>The OSGi Bundle Facet feature links together the PDE and WTP
	tooling. It enable the WTP project wizards to create OSGi bundles
	projects, like Web Application Bundles and Persistence Bundles. It's
	the very first step towards providing OSGi tooling for enterprise
	applications. This feature will be a great complement to the PDE and
	WTP project that are in the Simultaneous Release since the very
	beginning. This feature is very well demonstrated in a short
	screencast [5]. We are also in the process of writing a Getting
	Started guide [6].</p>
	<p>Libra is still an incubating project. We think that including it
	in the Indigo Release will keep up the momentum and participation in
	the project to have this concrete goal to aim for. It will also
	increase community awareness and participation, if it can be in the
	common Indigo repository. We are confident that we can fulfill the
	requirements for the Simultaneous Release train. The limited scope of
	the first release (the above two features) enable us to quickly do all
	required changes. Our efforts are tracked in bug 338060 [7].</p>
	<p>This request has been reviewed and approved by the WTP PMC at
	the 3/1 meeting.</p>
	<pre>
	[1] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4837
	[2] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4844
	[3] http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/2011/02/02/equinoxrap-war-products-has-moved-hello-eclipse-libra/
	[4] http://wiki.eclipse.org/RAP/Equinox_WAR_products
	[5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r09q9a4Qaas
	[6] https://bugs.eclipse.org/338060
	[7] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Libra/Getting_Started
	</pre>

	<h3>Pending CQ</h3>
	<p>
	<a href="https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4830">CQ
	4830 EJB Timer</a> Waiting for Kaloyan.
	</p>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Kaloyan will attend to this week.</p>
	<h3>JPA Diagram Editor</h3>
	<p>Do we have agreement (or a plan?) on what to do with Graphiti?
	'include' or 'require'?</p>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Should be "requires" unless reason
	not to. Neil will discuss with Tran to a) see if reasons b) see if
	work is feasible for M6.</p>
	<h3>Be sure newly renamed JPT feature chagnes are incorporated
	into Java EE IDE package feature, if needed</h3>
	<p>org.eclipse.epp.package.jee.feature</p>
	<p>/cvsroot/technology</p>
	<p>org.eclipse.epp/packages/org.eclipse.epp.package.jee.feature</p>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Neil will discuss with Tran to see
	what needs to be changed, if anything</p>
	<h3>Maven discussion?</h3>
	<p>Who, when, how much?</p>
	<p style="font-style: italic;">Chuck will initiate phone
	calls/discussions. Seemed to be desire (and people) to contribute ...
	but post Indigo</p>
	<h2>Future Agenda items</h2>
	<!-- <ul style="text-indent: 5em; font-style: italic;"> -->
	<ul style="font-style: italic;">

	<li>Retrospect Helios quick maintenance release. Does it mean we
	weren't ready to release? Any way to improve timing in future?</li>
	<li>Disuss our model and assignments of "PMC Roles". Do they
	still make sense?</li>


	</ul>
	<h2>References</h2>
	<ul>

	<li><a
	href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Team_thoughts_on_continuous_improvement_32">Continuous
	Improvement Notes</a>
	</li>


	</ul>


	<hr />
	<p>
	Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.
	</p>
	<p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
	</body>
	</html>