development/pmc_call_notes/2008-04-29.html - www.eclipse.org/webtools - Git at Google

 <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
 <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
 <head>
 <title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for April 29, 2008 Conference Call</title>
 </head>
 <body>
 <h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for April 29, 2008 Conference Call</h1>
 <h2>Call Info</h2>
 <p>Tollfree in the US: 877-421-0030 <br />
 Alternate: 770-615-1247<br />
 Access code: 800388# <br />
 <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/f/f6/WTP_status_phone_access.pdf">Full list of phone numbers</a><br />
 <br />
 <a
     href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
 &amp;month=10
 &amp;day=16
 &amp;year=2007
 &amp;hour=11
 &amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=207">Call
 Time: 1500 UTC</a></p>
 <h2>Attendees</h2>
 <h3>PMC Members</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>David Williams: Y</li>
     <li>Naci Dai: N (Regrets)</li>
     <li>Raghunathan Srinivasan: Y</li>
     <li>Neil Hauge: Y</li>
     <li>Tim deBoer: Y</li>
     <li>Kaloyan Raev N (Regrets)</li>
 </ul>
 <!--
 <h3>Invited Guests</h3>
 <ul>
 <li>Philippe Ombredanne (ATF): N</li>
 </ul>
 -->
 <!--
 <h2>Announcements</h2>
 <ul>
     <li></li>
 </ul>
  -->
 <h2>Reports, Actions, Issues</h2>
 <h3>Architecture: Tim deBoer</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>* Tim will draft and send inner-api policy soon. <br />
     Done. Please review new section in <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_API_Policy">WTP_API_Policy</a></li>
     <li>* Tim will find out specific "advise to give developers (and auto-test teams)" to implement the WTP API
     policy (which tools/build reports to use).</li>
     <li>* Tim to implement "Java Doc Builds" for server tools, and make recommendations to other projects on how to
     implement. <b>I propose to pull current 'wst' and 'jst' javadoc bundles and let each sub-project to solve on
     their own?</b>
     <ul>
         <li>It was agreed this was a reasonable "solution" (request, to project leads) ... some might be surprised
         ... but, was a resonable position.</li>
     </ul>
     </li>
 </ul>
 <dl>
     <dt>Notes:</dt>
     <dd>
     <ul>
         <li>Recommended to restart the protected non-api scans.</li>
         <li>Will not accept new data, for now, but if tooling could be improved to detect/remove additional
         (non-protected) data, then perhaps it'd be useful to show non-api use going down.</li>
         <li>** <b>But, an update: Have discovered that current ones are nearly meaningless, since so much as
         changed, so scan's show us as "changing protected API", but it's not protected API any longer.</b>
         <ul>
             <li>Concluded we should still run the scans, as sort of a "unit test" to see if any new, unexpected
             breakage. Run occasionally, that is, such as every milestone.</li>
             <li>We'll need to tell developers to "make use of as best they can" since it includes lots of noise.</li>
             <li>We may look at easy ways to reduce noise ... such as to "diff" with previous, or some reference
             report.</li>
             <li>It was suggested at some point we may want to put back on adopters to sanitize their data, but,
             that might still require more work on our part to make sure no new usage data was added.</li>
         </ul>
         </li>
     </ul>
     </dd>
 </dl>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Lead">WTP Architecture Lead Role</a></li>
     <li>Tracking meetings and work at <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Working_Group">WTP
     Architecture Working Group</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Requirements: Raghu Srinivasan</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>Do we need <a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01399.html">Draft release plan for
     the next release by June?</a> (See see <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301">bug 215301</a>).</li>
     <li>** An Update on "standard plan format by June" ... <br />
     Rumor has it that the June deadline was to have a standard format decided, and the "infrastructure" in place to roll
     them up into a single roadmap document. The "real" plan is expected by September. My understanding was there would
     be a new note to this effect to "project leads list", but haven't seen it yet. But, suggest we ... Raghu? ... sort
     through the standard project plan format to see what we can/should do. I think the only question is if we want to
     have one WTP plan, and then produce the standard format from that (which would be my first thought) or literally
     have just one plan that happens to satisfy both needs.</li>
 </ul>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Requirements_Lead">WTP Requirements Lead Role</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Education: Naci Dai</h3>
 <p><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01401.html">meeting conflict till end of May</a></p>
 <p>** Need status update</p>
 <ul>
     <li>Phase 1, organize what we have, done by end January.</li>
     <li>Phase 2, self guided new materials. some available by EclipseCon.</li>
     <li>phase 3, shutdown .. scenarios</li>
 </ul>
 <dl>
     <dt>Notes:</dt>
     <dd>Orgainizing "current" now, should be ready by EclipseCon.</dd>
     <dd>Will be organized better for narrowing selection and sorting.</dd>
     <dd>For now, the "database" will be one XML file, with various attributes/qualities to search and sort on.</dd>
 </dl>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Education_Lead">WTP Education Lead</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Planning: David Williams</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>We may need <b>another</b> 2.0.2 patch -- need to get developers to respond to JBoss use-case problems.
     (And, I've asked Naci to get involved.)
     <ul>
         <li><a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=222531">222531</a> Regression (?) between wtp
         2.0.1 and 2.0.2 in J2EEFlexProjDeployable</li>
         <li><a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=201318">201318</a> [hotbug] EAR Libraries
         container fails to initialize for 2.5 web project</li>
     </ul>
     </li>
     <li>Beginning Review Materials
     <ul>
         <li><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/iprelated/ip_log.php">IP Log</a>: third party code, list of
         committers, contributors</li>
         <li>Review: <a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/iprelated/2008dependancies.php">Other third party
         dependencies</a>
         <ul>
             <li>Good discussion. Raghu and Neil to tweak their sections some.</li>
             <li>Decided to add, somewhere, "we list these available options only to demonstrate there are lots of
             choices for the user, we do not advocate only these or any specific one"</li>
             <li>Decided we'd add Jetty to list of "used from platform" items.</li>
             <li>Discussed that the "installable runtimes" was a complex area, since some might argue it
             "encourages" certain usage over others. We could envision a day in the future where we might want to ask for
             some sort of Eclipse Review. Not for complete IP, probably, but, for example, maybe just to confirm the
             license presented to the user, from the URL provided, is a valid license, compatible with "use with" EPL,
             etc.</li>
             <li>We acknowledge there is an oddity in that Axis2 Runtime only has one choice, as far as we know.
             Don't see this as a practical problem since we believe users have the runtime first, and then look for tools
             to make better use of it, but ... we could envision that in future we may want to discuss more</li>
         </ul>
         </li>
         <li>Who's to do API statements, deprecated statements?</li>
     </ul>
     </li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Quality: Neil Hauge</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>We will no longer have "old bug" focus items in status meetings, as we end this release, but will restart
     after the June release.</li>
     <li>Will now focus on "ramp down quality" in status meetings.</li>
 </ul>
 <h4>Reference:</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality_Lead">WTP Quality Lead</a></li>
     <li>See also <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality">Quality Page</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Planning_Lead">WTP Planning Role</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Patches_for_Release_2.0.2">patch process document</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>WTP User Experience Lead: Kaloyan Raev</h3>
 <ul>
     <li></li>
 </ul>
 <dl>
     <dt>Notes:</dt>
     <dd>
     <ul>
         <li>Working on "use cases" document, for novice user. Should be ready for public review and comments in a
         few weeks.</li>
         <li>Will be attending the UA Walk through meetings, and may propose a WTP one in future (perhaps on facets
         UI).</li>
     </ul>
     </dd>
 </dl>
 <h4>References</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_User_Experience_Lead">WTP User Experience Lead</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h2>General business?</h2>
 <ul>
     <li>* WTP Policy on "Committer Emeritus"?</li>
     <li>Other projects to watch:
     <ul>
         <li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01400.html">EMFT Texo project proposal</a></li>
         <li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-dev/msg06011.html">Maven Integration</a></li>
     </ul>
     </li>
     <li>Potential resource issues?
     <ul>
         <li>Product plugin for EPP and welcome screen</li>
         <li>Refactoring Doc features (and moving to appropriate sub-projects).</li>
         <li>Refactoring SDK (source and JavaDoc) features/bundles (and moving to appropriate sub-projects)</li>
         <li>Platform/OS coverage for testing and support? -- probably suffices to simply record coverage. Perhaps
         ask for community help.</li>
         <li>Performance Tests -- Kayolan making some progress.</li>
         <li>Needs some JSF features, at least for build</li>
     </ul>
     <dl>
         <dt>Notes:</dt>
         <dd>
         <ul>
             <li>No obvious resource solutions.</li>
         </ul>
         </dd>
     </dl>
     </li>
 </ul>
 <h2>Action Items</h2>
 <h3>To Do</h3>
 <ol>
     <li>Raghu: create a wiki page: a checklist for how to lower the barrier to participation for all projects</li>
     <li>David: create wiki page for 3rd-party requirements</li>
     <li>Naci (changed from David): post instructions and reminders for our "community resources" and presentations
     page, especially, even, for eclipseCon 2007, and Eclipse Summit</li>
 </ol>
 <h3>Done</h3>
 <ol>
     <li>15022010, all: WTP Refactor follow up: Need to update website. Project Leads will need to take ownership
     of their own pages. See <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=201331">bug 201331</a></li>
     <li>David: Reorg CVS. See <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_CVS_Restructuring">CVS Restructuring
     Proposal</a></li>
     <li>David: update our "planning" documents with dates for both Ganymede and Winter maintenance.</li>
     <li>David: Resolved <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Policy_on_Package_Visibility">WTP Policy on
     Package Visibility</a></li>
 </ol>
 <h2>PMC Calendar</h2>
 <ul>
     <li>* Eclipse World deadline has passed (though they sometimes accept late submissions). Who has submitted?</li>
 </ul>
 <hr />
 <p>Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.</p>
 <p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
 </body>
 </html>
	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
	<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
	<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
	<head>
	<title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for April 29, 2008 Conference Call</title>
	</head>
	<body>
	<h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for April 29, 2008 Conference Call</h1>
	<h2>Call Info</h2>
	<p>Tollfree in the US: 877-421-0030 <br />
	Alternate: 770-615-1247<br />
	Access code: 800388# <br />
	<a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/f/f6/WTP_status_phone_access.pdf">Full list of phone numbers</a><br />
	<br />
	<a
	href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
	&month=10
	&day=16
	&year=2007
	&hour=11
	&min=0&sec=0&p1=207">Call
	Time: 1500 UTC</a></p>
	<h2>Attendees</h2>
	<h3>PMC Members</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>David Williams: Y</li>
	<li>Naci Dai: N (Regrets)</li>
	<li>Raghunathan Srinivasan: Y</li>
	<li>Neil Hauge: Y</li>
	<li>Tim deBoer: Y</li>
	<li>Kaloyan Raev N (Regrets)</li>
	</ul>
	<!--
	<h3>Invited Guests</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>Philippe Ombredanne (ATF): N</li>
	</ul>
	-->
	<!--
	<h2>Announcements</h2>
	<ul>
	<li></li>
	</ul>
	-->
	<h2>Reports, Actions, Issues</h2>
	<h3>Architecture: Tim deBoer</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>* Tim will draft and send inner-api policy soon. <br />
	Done. Please review new section in <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_API_Policy">WTP_API_Policy</a></li>
	<li>* Tim will find out specific "advise to give developers (and auto-test teams)" to implement the WTP API
	policy (which tools/build reports to use).</li>
	<li>* Tim to implement "Java Doc Builds" for server tools, and make recommendations to other projects on how to
	implement. <b>I propose to pull current 'wst' and 'jst' javadoc bundles and let each sub-project to solve on
	their own?</b>
	<ul>
	<li>It was agreed this was a reasonable "solution" (request, to project leads) ... some might be surprised
	... but, was a resonable position.</li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	</ul>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>
	<ul>
	<li>Recommended to restart the protected non-api scans.</li>
	<li>Will not accept new data, for now, but if tooling could be improved to detect/remove additional
	(non-protected) data, then perhaps it'd be useful to show non-api use going down.</li>
	<li>** <b>But, an update: Have discovered that current ones are nearly meaningless, since so much as
	changed, so scan's show us as "changing protected API", but it's not protected API any longer.</b>
	<ul>
	<li>Concluded we should still run the scans, as sort of a "unit test" to see if any new, unexpected
	breakage. Run occasionally, that is, such as every milestone.</li>
	<li>We'll need to tell developers to "make use of as best they can" since it includes lots of noise.</li>
	<li>We may look at easy ways to reduce noise ... such as to "diff" with previous, or some reference
	report.</li>
	<li>It was suggested at some point we may want to put back on adopters to sanitize their data, but,
	that might still require more work on our part to make sure no new usage data was added.</li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	</ul>
	</dd>
	</dl>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Lead">WTP Architecture Lead Role</a></li>
	<li>Tracking meetings and work at <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Working_Group">WTP
	Architecture Working Group</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Requirements: Raghu Srinivasan</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>Do we need <a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01399.html">Draft release plan for
	the next release by June?</a> (See see <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301">bug 215301</a>).</li>
	<li>** An Update on "standard plan format by June" ... <br />
	Rumor has it that the June deadline was to have a standard format decided, and the "infrastructure" in place to roll
	them up into a single roadmap document. The "real" plan is expected by September. My understanding was there would
	be a new note to this effect to "project leads list", but haven't seen it yet. But, suggest we ... Raghu? ... sort
	through the standard project plan format to see what we can/should do. I think the only question is if we want to
	have one WTP plan, and then produce the standard format from that (which would be my first thought) or literally
	have just one plan that happens to satisfy both needs.</li>
	</ul>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Requirements_Lead">WTP Requirements Lead Role</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Education: Naci Dai</h3>
	<p><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01401.html">meeting conflict till end of May</a></p>
	<p>** Need status update</p>
	<ul>
	<li>Phase 1, organize what we have, done by end January.</li>
	<li>Phase 2, self guided new materials. some available by EclipseCon.</li>
	<li>phase 3, shutdown .. scenarios</li>
	</ul>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>Orgainizing "current" now, should be ready by EclipseCon.</dd>
	<dd>Will be organized better for narrowing selection and sorting.</dd>
	<dd>For now, the "database" will be one XML file, with various attributes/qualities to search and sort on.</dd>
	</dl>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Education_Lead">WTP Education Lead</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Planning: David Williams</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>We may need <b>another</b> 2.0.2 patch -- need to get developers to respond to JBoss use-case problems.
	(And, I've asked Naci to get involved.)
	<ul>
	<li><a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=222531">222531</a> Regression (?) between wtp
	2.0.1 and 2.0.2 in J2EEFlexProjDeployable</li>
	<li><a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=201318">201318</a> [hotbug] EAR Libraries
	container fails to initialize for 2.5 web project</li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	<li>Beginning Review Materials
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/iprelated/ip_log.php">IP Log</a>: third party code, list of
	committers, contributors</li>
	<li>Review: <a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/iprelated/2008dependancies.php">Other third party
	dependencies</a>
	<ul>
	<li>Good discussion. Raghu and Neil to tweak their sections some.</li>
	<li>Decided to add, somewhere, "we list these available options only to demonstrate there are lots of
	choices for the user, we do not advocate only these or any specific one"</li>
	<li>Decided we'd add Jetty to list of "used from platform" items.</li>
	<li>Discussed that the "installable runtimes" was a complex area, since some might argue it
	"encourages" certain usage over others. We could envision a day in the future where we might want to ask for
	some sort of Eclipse Review. Not for complete IP, probably, but, for example, maybe just to confirm the
	license presented to the user, from the URL provided, is a valid license, compatible with "use with" EPL,
	etc.</li>
	<li>We acknowledge there is an oddity in that Axis2 Runtime only has one choice, as far as we know.
	Don't see this as a practical problem since we believe users have the runtime first, and then look for tools
	to make better use of it, but ... we could envision that in future we may want to discuss more</li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	<li>Who's to do API statements, deprecated statements?</li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Quality: Neil Hauge</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>We will no longer have "old bug" focus items in status meetings, as we end this release, but will restart
	after the June release.</li>
	<li>Will now focus on "ramp down quality" in status meetings.</li>
	</ul>
	<h4>Reference:</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality_Lead">WTP Quality Lead</a></li>
	<li>See also <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality">Quality Page</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Planning_Lead">WTP Planning Role</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Patches_for_Release_2.0.2">patch process document</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>WTP User Experience Lead: Kaloyan Raev</h3>
	<ul>
	<li></li>
	</ul>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>
	<ul>
	<li>Working on "use cases" document, for novice user. Should be ready for public review and comments in a
	few weeks.</li>
	<li>Will be attending the UA Walk through meetings, and may propose a WTP one in future (perhaps on facets
	UI).</li>
	</ul>
	</dd>
	</dl>
	<h4>References</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_User_Experience_Lead">WTP User Experience Lead</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h2>General business?</h2>
	<ul>
	<li>* WTP Policy on "Committer Emeritus"?</li>
	<li>Other projects to watch:
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01400.html">EMFT Texo project proposal</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-dev/msg06011.html">Maven Integration</a></li>
	</ul>
	</li>
	<li>Potential resource issues?
	<ul>
	<li>Product plugin for EPP and welcome screen</li>
	<li>Refactoring Doc features (and moving to appropriate sub-projects).</li>
	<li>Refactoring SDK (source and JavaDoc) features/bundles (and moving to appropriate sub-projects)</li>
	<li>Platform/OS coverage for testing and support? -- probably suffices to simply record coverage. Perhaps
	ask for community help.</li>
	<li>Performance Tests -- Kayolan making some progress.</li>
	<li>Needs some JSF features, at least for build</li>
	</ul>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>
	<ul>
	<li>No obvious resource solutions.</li>
	</ul>
	</dd>
	</dl>
	</li>
	</ul>
	<h2>Action Items</h2>
	<h3>To Do</h3>
	<ol>
	<li>Raghu: create a wiki page: a checklist for how to lower the barrier to participation for all projects</li>
	<li>David: create wiki page for 3rd-party requirements</li>
	<li>Naci (changed from David): post instructions and reminders for our "community resources" and presentations
	page, especially, even, for eclipseCon 2007, and Eclipse Summit</li>
	</ol>
	<h3>Done</h3>
	<ol>
	<li>15022010, all: WTP Refactor follow up: Need to update website. Project Leads will need to take ownership
	of their own pages. See <a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=201331">bug 201331</a></li>
	<li>David: Reorg CVS. See <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_CVS_Restructuring">CVS Restructuring
	Proposal</a></li>
	<li>David: update our "planning" documents with dates for both Ganymede and Winter maintenance.</li>
	<li>David: Resolved <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Policy_on_Package_Visibility">WTP Policy on
	Package Visibility</a></li>
	</ol>
	<h2>PMC Calendar</h2>
	<ul>
	<li>* Eclipse World deadline has passed (though they sometimes accept late submissions). Who has submitted?</li>
	</ul>
	<hr />
	<p>Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.</p>
	<p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
	</body>
	</html>