development/pmc_call_notes/2010-12-07.html - www.eclipse.org/webtools - Git at Google

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 <h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for December 07, 2010 Conference Call</h1>
 <h2>Call Info</h2>
 <p>Toll free (in US and Canada): 888-426-6840 <br />
 Access code: 6460142# <br />
 Caller pay alternative number: 215-861-6239<br />
 <a
 	href="https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=6460142&accessNumber=2158616239">Full
 list of global access numbers</a><br />
 <br />
 <a
 	href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
 &amp;month=12
 &amp;day=07
 &amp;year=2010
 &amp;hour=11
 &amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=207">Call
 Time: 11:00 AM Eastern</a></p>


 <h2>Attendees</h2>
 <h3>PMC Members</h3>
 <ul>
 	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">David
 	Williams: Y</li>
 	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Naci Dai: N</li>
 	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Raghunathan
 	Srinivasan: Y</li>
 	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Neil Hauge:
 	Y</li>
 	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Tim deBoer:
 	R</li>
 	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Kaloyan
 	Raev: Y</li>
 </ul>


 <h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>
 <ul>

 	<li>JPA Diagram Editor<br />
 	Discuss issue where Graphiti is still incubating for Indigo?
 	<p>We discussed and decided the following points:</p>
 	<ul>
 		<li>As a matter of policy, WTP released projects can depend on
 		other incubating projects, but we agree it is an exception, and
 		requires PMC review and approval. The PMC will assess
 		cost/benifits/risks etc., and depends on if the incubating project is
 		released, it relatively mature, impact to adopters, etc. (and, we
 		approve it for the JPA Diagram Editor, depending on Graphiti).</li>
 		<li>We do believe it is fine for JPA Diagram Editor to "graduate"
 		(if it were a true project), as graduation is more a matter of
 		"project state" ... does is operate well, follow "the Eclipse Way"
 		with community and adopters, etc., not so much the maturity of its API
 		... noting that API stability is always a matter of "API Policy" of a
 		project and can vary from project to project.</li>
 		<li>We would not put JPA Diagram Editor (or any incubation
 		feature, or feature that depends on incubating feature) directly in
 		the JEE Package. This is because if we did, we'd need to include a
 		note similar to "this package includes incubating features" and we
 		fear that would make it seem "less ready" for use, less mature.</li>
 		<li>The JPA Diagram Editor, and Graphiti, would still be in the
 		common repository, /releases/helios, and relatively easy for users to
 		install. Presumably, at some point in that installation (such as list
 		of feature/bundles) to be installed, the incubating components would
 		be identified as incubating.</li>
 		<li>Still ok for JPA Diagram Editor to release with Indigo at
 		"1.0" level, especially since it doesn't any APIs to speak of.</li>
 		<li>"project vs. sub-project" decision should be based on
 		goverance concerns and desire to release independently, not
 		architecture or packaging. JPA Diagram editor won't want to release
 		independently in future (the one time was only to have a Helios
 		version released.) And everyone felt social conventions in Dali would
 		suffice for governance. Hence one project (Dali) suffices and we'll do
 		move review, instead of creation review.</li>
 		<li>From EMO's point of view, it is strictly a move review, but
 		convention, when WTP Incubator components "graduate" (move) we still
 		expect the component team to provide documentation similar to that
 		which would be found in a project graduation review.</li>
 		<li>For features, builds, map files, etc., will keep things as
 		seperate as possible. Will have one new 'component' in Dali's
 		bugzilla.</li>
 		<li>Kaloyan will start move review docuware. He will provide
 		"committer info" for two committers for JPA Diagram editor, but Neil
 		will "nominate" them for vote of other Dali committters (as is
 		required for move). We (they) still need to check EDP and check on
 		details of "move review" to decide if vote must be done on mailing
 		list, as part of move review, or if they can use portal and say
 		"contingient on successful move review".</li>
 	</ul>


 	</li>
 	<li>Anything else?
 	<p>Kolyan gave update on Trademark issue: it has been established
 	no one can use &quot;OSGi &lt;anything&gt;&quot;. They are now looking
 	at something like &quot;Enterprise Tools for OSGi Platform&quot;. Note
 	the project's "short name" will be "Libra" and package namespace will
 	be "org.eclipse.libra".</p>
 	<p>Neil gave "heads up" that they want to "include" (or depend on)
 	some Eclipselink bunles that do JPQL parsing in Dali features (for
 	validation, and code completion). The PMC did want to make sure we are
 	sensitive to adopters and not give any appearance to an end-user of
 	"depending on EclipseLink runtime" but Neil said no, just a few bundles
 	that would not surface in any end-user UI ... they would not see
 	"eclipselink runtime" installed, or anything similar. We'll work out
 	how to "reship" those bundles similar to how we would Orbit bundles, so
 	we don't have to instruct users to "go and install the EclipseLink
 	runtime". If those bundles are not singletons, would be especially
 	easy. If they are singletons, will need to use extra care to make sure
 	same version is used by WTP and EclipseLink.</p>
 	</li>


 </ul>
 <h3>Future Agenda items</h3>
 <!--  <ul style="text-indent: 5em; font-style: italic;"> -->
 <ul style="font-style: italic;">

 	<li>Retrospect Helios quick maintenance release. Does it mean we
 	weren't ready to release? Any way to improve timing in future?</li>
 	<li>Disuss our model and assignments of "PMC Roles". Do they still
 	make sense?</li>


 </ul>
 <h3>References</h3>
 <ul>

 	<li><a
 		href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Team_thoughts_on_continuous_improvement_32">Continuous
 	Improvement Notes</a></li>


 </ul>


 <hr />
 <p>Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.</p>
 <p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
 </body>
 </html>
	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
	<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
	<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
	<head>
	<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />
	<title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for December 07, 2010 Conference
	Call</title>
	</head>
	<body>
	<h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for December 07, 2010 Conference Call</h1>
	<h2>Call Info</h2>
	<p>Toll free (in US and Canada): 888-426-6840 <br />
	Access code: 6460142# <br />
	Caller pay alternative number: 215-861-6239<br />
	<a
	href="https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=6460142&accessNumber=2158616239">Full
	list of global access numbers</a><br />
	<br />
	<a
	href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
	&month=12
	&day=07
	&year=2010
	&hour=11
	&min=0&sec=0&p1=207">Call
	Time: 11:00 AM Eastern</a></p>


	<h2>Attendees</h2>
	<h3>PMC Members</h3>
	<ul>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">David
	Williams: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Naci Dai: N</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Raghunathan
	Srinivasan: Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Neil Hauge:
	Y</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Tim deBoer:
	R</li>
	<li style="margin: 0em 0.2em 0em 0em; padding: 0.0em;">Kaloyan
	Raev: Y</li>
	</ul>


	<h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>
	<ul>

	<li>JPA Diagram Editor<br />
	Discuss issue where Graphiti is still incubating for Indigo?
	<p>We discussed and decided the following points:</p>
	<ul>
	<li>As a matter of policy, WTP released projects can depend on
	other incubating projects, but we agree it is an exception, and
	requires PMC review and approval. The PMC will assess
	cost/benifits/risks etc., and depends on if the incubating project is
	released, it relatively mature, impact to adopters, etc. (and, we
	approve it for the JPA Diagram Editor, depending on Graphiti).</li>
	<li>We do believe it is fine for JPA Diagram Editor to "graduate"
	(if it were a true project), as graduation is more a matter of
	"project state" ... does is operate well, follow "the Eclipse Way"
	with community and adopters, etc., not so much the maturity of its API
	... noting that API stability is always a matter of "API Policy" of a
	project and can vary from project to project.</li>
	<li>We would not put JPA Diagram Editor (or any incubation
	feature, or feature that depends on incubating feature) directly in
	the JEE Package. This is because if we did, we'd need to include a
	note similar to "this package includes incubating features" and we
	fear that would make it seem "less ready" for use, less mature.</li>
	<li>The JPA Diagram Editor, and Graphiti, would still be in the
	common repository, /releases/helios, and relatively easy for users to
	install. Presumably, at some point in that installation (such as list
	of feature/bundles) to be installed, the incubating components would
	be identified as incubating.</li>
	<li>Still ok for JPA Diagram Editor to release with Indigo at
	"1.0" level, especially since it doesn't any APIs to speak of.</li>
	<li>"project vs. sub-project" decision should be based on
	goverance concerns and desire to release independently, not
	architecture or packaging. JPA Diagram editor won't want to release
	independently in future (the one time was only to have a Helios
	version released.) And everyone felt social conventions in Dali would
	suffice for governance. Hence one project (Dali) suffices and we'll do
	move review, instead of creation review.</li>
	<li>From EMO's point of view, it is strictly a move review, but
	convention, when WTP Incubator components "graduate" (move) we still
	expect the component team to provide documentation similar to that
	which would be found in a project graduation review.</li>
	<li>For features, builds, map files, etc., will keep things as
	seperate as possible. Will have one new 'component' in Dali's
	bugzilla.</li>
	<li>Kaloyan will start move review docuware. He will provide
	"committer info" for two committers for JPA Diagram editor, but Neil
	will "nominate" them for vote of other Dali committters (as is
	required for move). We (they) still need to check EDP and check on
	details of "move review" to decide if vote must be done on mailing
	list, as part of move review, or if they can use portal and say
	"contingient on successful move review".</li>
	</ul>


	</li>
	<li>Anything else?
	<p>Kolyan gave update on Trademark issue: it has been established
	no one can use "OSGi <anything>". They are now looking
	at something like "Enterprise Tools for OSGi Platform". Note
	the project's "short name" will be "Libra" and package namespace will
	be "org.eclipse.libra".</p>
	<p>Neil gave "heads up" that they want to "include" (or depend on)
	some Eclipselink bunles that do JPQL parsing in Dali features (for
	validation, and code completion). The PMC did want to make sure we are
	sensitive to adopters and not give any appearance to an end-user of
	"depending on EclipseLink runtime" but Neil said no, just a few bundles
	that would not surface in any end-user UI ... they would not see
	"eclipselink runtime" installed, or anything similar. We'll work out
	how to "reship" those bundles similar to how we would Orbit bundles, so
	we don't have to instruct users to "go and install the EclipseLink
	runtime". If those bundles are not singletons, would be especially
	easy. If they are singletons, will need to use extra care to make sure
	same version is used by WTP and EclipseLink.</p>
	</li>


	</ul>
	<h3>Future Agenda items</h3>
	<!-- <ul style="text-indent: 5em; font-style: italic;"> -->
	<ul style="font-style: italic;">

	<li>Retrospect Helios quick maintenance release. Does it mean we
	weren't ready to release? Any way to improve timing in future?</li>
	<li>Disuss our model and assignments of "PMC Roles". Do they still
	make sense?</li>


	</ul>
	<h3>References</h3>
	<ul>

	<li><a
	href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Team_thoughts_on_continuous_improvement_32">Continuous
	Improvement Notes</a></li>


	</ul>


	<hr />
	<p>Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.</p>
	<p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
	</body>
	</html>