development/pmc_call_notes/2008-10-14.html - www.eclipse.org/webtools - Git at Google

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 <title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for October 14, 2008 Conference Call</title>
 </head>
 <body>
 <h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for October 14, 2008 Conference Call</h1>
 <h2>Call Info</h2>
 <p>Tollfree in the US: 877-421-0030 <br />
 Alternate: 770-615-1247<br />
 Access code: 269746# <br />
 <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/f/f6/WTP_status_phone_access.pdf">Full list of phone numbers</a><br />
 <br />
 <a
     href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
 &amp;month=10
 &amp;day=16
 &amp;year=2007
 &amp;hour=11
 &amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=207">Call
 Time: 1500 UTC</a></p>
 <!--
 <h2>Attendees</h2>
 <h3>PMC Members</h3>
 <ul>
     <li>David Williams: Y</li>
     <li>Naci Dai: N</li>
     <li>Raghunathan Srinivasan: Y</li>
     <li>Neil Hauge: Y</li>
     <li>Tim deBoer: Y</li>
     <li>Kaloyan Raev Y</li>
 </ul>
  -->
 <!--
 <h3>Invited Guests</h3>
 <ul>
 <li>Philippe Ombredanne (ATF): N</li>
 </ul>
 -->
 <h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>
 <ul>
     <li>For your awareness: <a
         href="http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/10/13/Mozilla_Labs_pursues_Web_dev_tools_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/10/13/Mozilla_Labs_pursues_Web_dev_tools_1.html">Mozilla
     Labs pursues Web dev tools</a>
     <p>Possible relationship to ATF so should stay aware.</p>
     </li>
     <li>Reactions to the proposal to have <a
         href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/technology-pmc/msg01118.html">Faceted Project Framework move to
     Technology Project</a>?
     <p>Very interesting discussion with many points expressed. Server View and Installable Runtimes are two other
     possible (future) "common" components.</p>
     <p>Immediate action is to note the glitch in the process already and simply note that there are concerns about
     moving it out of WTP that would have to be worked-trough and addressed. Additionally, we all wondered why it was
     that it could not stay in the WTP Commons project, was it just the name? WTP specific processes?</p>
     <p>[Just by coincidence, I was on another call with Konstantin later in the day and he added a few other bits of
     information that partially answer these. One was that he doesn't view this as "moving" but simply "incubating"
     something new in the Technology project, and once it graduates from there, then it might find a new home (in theory,
     for example, Platform, Tools...). Another was that he believes "if in WTP then no one will adopt (even if packaged
     separately)". That's kind'a sad!? and/or I do not understand how Technology would be any better.]</p>
     <p>We all agreed it is important of use as the WTP PMC to foster the evolution of Eclipse, while at the same
     time ensuring the business interests of WTP.</p>
     </li>
     <li>Discussion of possible contributions that use Apache Velocity.
     <p>Dali _might_ use for Entity generation. It could use Velocity templates, instead of .JET as it currently
     does. We asked if the EMF's modeling's model-to-text components might offer an eclipse-based solution? (i.e. their
     jet2 be used instead? (we're not sure if "jet2" is correct name)).</p>
     <p>We concluded there was no obvious reason to object outright, but any contribution which pulls in further
     dependencies would get extra scrutiny, and that this PMC discussion today, by itself, does not mean it's "accepted"
     of course ... just that we would not object <i>a priori</i>.</p>
     </li>
 </ul>
 <h2>Reports, Actions, Issues</h2>
 <!--

     Rotate topics by taking last one and putting it on top

 -->
 <!--

     Architecture

  -->
 <h3>Architecture: Tim deBoer</h3>
 <ul>
     <li></li>
 </ul>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Lead">WTP Architecture Lead Role</a></li>
     <li>Tracking meetings and work at <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Working_Group">WTP
     Architecture Working Group</a></li>
 </ul>
 <!--

     Education

  -->
 <h3>Education: Naci Dai</h3>
 <p>Please review: <a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/community/new/new.php">Resource Page Proposal</a></p>
 <p>Naci was approached (and countered) with some proposed articles for Eclipse (online) magazine [need link. only
 one I found last published in 2007?] Naci will invite authors for a series of articles for "WTP Uncovered":</p>
 <ol>
     <li>web developer tools (xml, xsl, html, css)</li>
     <li>web applications with Java (jsf, jsp, server)</li>
     <li>enterprise application (jpa/ejb)</li>
     <li>soa, webservices</li>
     <li>adopters/extending (maybe)</li>
 </ol>
 <p>Naci updated us today: Publisher would like all articles in one issue (for an issued focused on WTP). Online
 version would be in English. Print version would be translated to German. They'd like one overview article less than
 20,000 words, and 4 shorter, but more focused article on specific areas, each less than 10,000 words</p>
 <p>Naci will have some Eductation site/materials ready next week.</p>
 <p>New Bugzilla component created: "Education".</p>
 <p>We will publish education materials under <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/">Creative
 Commons -- Attribution Share Alike</a> but still EPL for sample code, examples and snippets.</p>
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Education_Lead">WTP Education Lead</a></li>
 </ul>
 <!--

     Requirements

  -->
 <h3>Requirements: Raghu Srinivasan</h3>
 <p><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_3.1_Project_Plan">Planning Process Document</a> has been started.</p>
 <p>Eclipse-level dates and requirements have been clarified in a <a
     href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg01422.html">Planning Council message</a>
 (and elsewhere).</p>
 <hr />
 <p>Raghu's Preliminary Note (to PMC PLs)</p>
 <p>As you all know, we need to create the project plan for WTP-Galileo in the standard project plan format provided
 by the Foundation. We also need to create a plan for each subproject. So I have created the first cut of the plan for
 most of the active subprojects in WTP.</p>
 <p>I need you to update the projectplanurl field for your project from the Eclipse Portal. For help, see the <a
     href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Development_Resources/HOWTO/Project_Meta-Data">HOWTO/Project_Meta-Data</a>. I don't
 have the permission to update this for all the subprojects. Once you do that, you can view the plan by going to the
 standard home for your project, For example, see the one for <a
     href="http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project_summary.php?projectid=webtools">webtools as a whole</a>, scroll down
 to the Project Plan section and click on the link that says, "pending standard form".</p>
 <p>I would appreciate if you could try this and report your findings at the PMC call tomorrow. I (and David) have
 had mixed experiences in viewing this file and hence I want you to test it out before I mail this to all the other
 leads.</p>
 <p>Following are the URLs to use for each of the subprojects:</p>
 <ul>
     <li>EJB Tools: <code>http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/standard-project-plans/galileo/ejb-tools-plan.xml</code></li>
     <li>Dali: <code>http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/standard-project-plans/galileo/dali-plan.xml</code></li>
     <li>Server Tools: <code>http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/standard-project-plans/galileo/server-tools-plan.xml</code></li>
     <li>Releng: <code>http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/standard-project-plans/galileo/releng-plan.xml</code></li>
 </ul>
 <p>For the community to consume, I am hoping I can aggregate the plans to one plan.</p>
 <hr />
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Requirements_Lead">WTP Requirements Lead Role</a></li>
 </ul>
 <!--

     Planning

  -->
 <h3>Planning: David Williams</h3>
 <h4>long term items to track</h4>
 <ul>
     <li>?Pre 1.0 release of ATF component mid October?</li>
     <li>JPT 2.1 (need release review)</li>
     <li>2009, Galileo Release</li>
 </ul>
 <!--
 <dl>
     <dt>Notes:</dt>
     <dd>Reminder to be sure to check for <a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/plans/3.0.1/pmc-bug-approval.php">"PMC
     Review" bugs</a>.</dd>
     <dd>Reminded to be consistent in approving defects (such as getting project lead review, documenting "stop
     ship" need, etc.</dd>
 </dl>
  -->
 <h4>Reference</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Planning_Lead">WTP Planning Role</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Patches_for_Release_2.0.2">patch process document</a></li>
 </ul>
 <!--

     Quality

  -->
 <h3>Quality: Neil Hauge</h3>
 <dl>
     <dt>Notes:</dt>
     <dd>Neil investigating "close old bugs" policy.</dd>
     <dd>Neil has estimated approximately 800 bugs (of 2000 untargeted bugs) could be considered "old bugs". He'll
     prepare a table and note to send to project with encouragement to PLs to handle ... something like either triage
     individually and assign a target, or mark with 'helpwanted' or mark in mass with a kind comment to re-open if still
     an issue (with reason for the mass update, etc.).</dd>
 </dl>
 <h4>Reference:</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality_Lead">WTP Quality Lead</a></li>
     <li>See also <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality">Quality Page</a></li>
 </ul>
 <!--

     User Experience

  -->
 <h3>WTP User Experience Lead: Kaloyan Raev</h3>
 <ul>
     <li></li>
 </ul>
 <h4>References</h4>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_User_Experience_Lead">WTP User Experience Lead</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h2>General business?</h2>
 <h3>bugs to watch</h3>
 <ul>
     <li style="text-decoration: line-through;">Discussed need for <a
         href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=152461">bug 152461</a></li>
     <li style="text-decoration: line-through;">Also need to watch <a
         href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=245645">bug 245645</a></li>
     <li style="text-decoration: line-through;">Also need to watch <a
         href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=245573">bug 245573</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h3>Other projects to watch:</h3>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/sca-tools/">SCA Tools</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01400.html">EMFT Texo project proposal</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-dev/msg06011.html">Maven Integration</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h2>PMC Calendar</h2>
 <ul>
     <li><a href="http://www.eclipseworld.net/">Eclipse World</a><br />
     Raghu and Neil have submitted.</li>
     <li><a href="http://www.eclipsecon.org/summiteurope2008/">Eclipse European Summit</a>. <br />
     Kaloyan "wtp project" <br />
     Naci will attend but (probably) not present. <br />
     Neil has submitted for Dali (and Eclipse link) <br />
     Cameron and JSF</li>
     <li><a href="http://www.eclipsecon.org/2009/">EclipseCon 2009</a>. September we'll start recruiting talks.</li>
 </ul>
 <hr />
 <p>Back to <a href="../index_pmc_call_notes.php">meeting list</a>.</p>
 <p>Please send any additions or corrections to David Williams.</p>
 </body>
 </html>
	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
	<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
	<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
	<head>
	<meta
	http-equiv="Content-Type"
	content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />
	<title>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for October 14, 2008 Conference Call</title>
	</head>
	<body>
	<h1>WTP PMC Agenda/Minutes for October 14, 2008 Conference Call</h1>
	<h2>Call Info</h2>
	<p>Tollfree in the US: 877-421-0030 <br />
	Alternate: 770-615-1247<br />
	Access code: 269746# <br />
	<a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/f/f6/WTP_status_phone_access.pdf">Full list of phone numbers</a><br />
	<br />
	<a
	href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=224,207,1440,107
	&month=10
	&day=16
	&year=2007
	&hour=11
	&min=0&sec=0&p1=207">Call
	Time: 1500 UTC</a></p>
	<!--
	<h2>Attendees</h2>
	<h3>PMC Members</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>David Williams: Y</li>
	<li>Naci Dai: N</li>
	<li>Raghunathan Srinivasan: Y</li>
	<li>Neil Hauge: Y</li>
	<li>Tim deBoer: Y</li>
	<li>Kaloyan Raev Y</li>
	</ul>
	-->
	<!--
	<h3>Invited Guests</h3>
	<ul>
	<li>Philippe Ombredanne (ATF): N</li>
	</ul>
	-->
	<h2>Announcements and General Business</h2>
	<ul>
	<li>For your awareness: <a
	href="http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/10/13/Mozilla_Labs_pursues_Web_dev_tools_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/10/13/Mozilla_Labs_pursues_Web_dev_tools_1.html">Mozilla
	Labs pursues Web dev tools</a>
	<p>Possible relationship to ATF so should stay aware.</p>
	</li>
	<li>Reactions to the proposal to have <a
	href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/technology-pmc/msg01118.html">Faceted Project Framework move to
	Technology Project</a>?
	<p>Very interesting discussion with many points expressed. Server View and Installable Runtimes are two other
	possible (future) "common" components.</p>
	<p>Immediate action is to note the glitch in the process already and simply note that there are concerns about
	moving it out of WTP that would have to be worked-trough and addressed. Additionally, we all wondered why it was
	that it could not stay in the WTP Commons project, was it just the name? WTP specific processes?</p>
	<p>[Just by coincidence, I was on another call with Konstantin later in the day and he added a few other bits of
	information that partially answer these. One was that he doesn't view this as "moving" but simply "incubating"
	something new in the Technology project, and once it graduates from there, then it might find a new home (in theory,
	for example, Platform, Tools...). Another was that he believes "if in WTP then no one will adopt (even if packaged
	separately)". That's kind'a sad!? and/or I do not understand how Technology would be any better.]</p>
	<p>We all agreed it is important of use as the WTP PMC to foster the evolution of Eclipse, while at the same
	time ensuring the business interests of WTP.</p>
	</li>
	<li>Discussion of possible contributions that use Apache Velocity.
	<p>Dali _might_ use for Entity generation. It could use Velocity templates, instead of .JET as it currently
	does. We asked if the EMF's modeling's model-to-text components might offer an eclipse-based solution? (i.e. their
	jet2 be used instead? (we're not sure if "jet2" is correct name)).</p>
	<p>We concluded there was no obvious reason to object outright, but any contribution which pulls in further
	dependencies would get extra scrutiny, and that this PMC discussion today, by itself, does not mean it's "accepted"
	of course ... just that we would not object <i>a priori</i>.</p>
	</li>
	</ul>
	<h2>Reports, Actions, Issues</h2>
	<!--

	Rotate topics by taking last one and putting it on top

	-->
	<!--

	Architecture

	-->
	<h3>Architecture: Tim deBoer</h3>
	<ul>
	<li></li>
	</ul>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Lead">WTP Architecture Lead Role</a></li>
	<li>Tracking meetings and work at <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Architecture_Working_Group">WTP
	Architecture Working Group</a></li>
	</ul>
	<!--

	Education

	-->
	<h3>Education: Naci Dai</h3>
	<p>Please review: <a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/community/new/new.php">Resource Page Proposal</a></p>
	<p>Naci was approached (and countered) with some proposed articles for Eclipse (online) magazine [need link. only
	one I found last published in 2007?] Naci will invite authors for a series of articles for "WTP Uncovered":</p>
	<ol>
	<li>web developer tools (xml, xsl, html, css)</li>
	<li>web applications with Java (jsf, jsp, server)</li>
	<li>enterprise application (jpa/ejb)</li>
	<li>soa, webservices</li>
	<li>adopters/extending (maybe)</li>
	</ol>
	<p>Naci updated us today: Publisher would like all articles in one issue (for an issued focused on WTP). Online
	version would be in English. Print version would be translated to German. They'd like one overview article less than
	20,000 words, and 4 shorter, but more focused article on specific areas, each less than 10,000 words</p>
	<p>Naci will have some Eductation site/materials ready next week.</p>
	<p>New Bugzilla component created: "Education".</p>
	<p>We will publish education materials under <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/">Creative
	Commons -- Attribution Share Alike</a> but still EPL for sample code, examples and snippets.</p>
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Education_Lead">WTP Education Lead</a></li>
	</ul>
	<!--

	Requirements

	-->
	<h3>Requirements: Raghu Srinivasan</h3>
	<p><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_3.1_Project_Plan">Planning Process Document</a> has been started.</p>
	<p>Eclipse-level dates and requirements have been clarified in a <a
	href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg01422.html">Planning Council message</a>
	(and elsewhere).</p>
	<hr />
	<p>Raghu's Preliminary Note (to PMC PLs)</p>
	<p>As you all know, we need to create the project plan for WTP-Galileo in the standard project plan format provided
	by the Foundation. We also need to create a plan for each subproject. So I have created the first cut of the plan for
	most of the active subprojects in WTP.</p>
	<p>I need you to update the projectplanurl field for your project from the Eclipse Portal. For help, see the <a
	href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/Development_Resources/HOWTO/Project_Meta-Data">HOWTO/Project_Meta-Data</a>. I don't
	have the permission to update this for all the subprojects. Once you do that, you can view the plan by going to the
	standard home for your project, For example, see the one for <a
	href="http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project_summary.php?projectid=webtools">webtools as a whole</a>, scroll down
	to the Project Plan section and click on the link that says, "pending standard form".</p>
	<p>I would appreciate if you could try this and report your findings at the PMC call tomorrow. I (and David) have
	had mixed experiences in viewing this file and hence I want you to test it out before I mail this to all the other
	leads.</p>
	<p>Following are the URLs to use for each of the subprojects:</p>
	<ul>
	<li>EJB Tools: <code>http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/standard-project-plans/galileo/ejb-tools-plan.xml</code></li>
	<li>Dali: <code>http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/standard-project-plans/galileo/dali-plan.xml</code></li>
	<li>Server Tools: <code>http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/standard-project-plans/galileo/server-tools-plan.xml</code></li>
	<li>Releng: <code>http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/standard-project-plans/galileo/releng-plan.xml</code></li>
	</ul>
	<p>For the community to consume, I am hoping I can aggregate the plans to one plan.</p>
	<hr />
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Requirements_Lead">WTP Requirements Lead Role</a></li>
	</ul>
	<!--

	Planning

	-->
	<h3>Planning: David Williams</h3>
	<h4>long term items to track</h4>
	<ul>
	<li>?Pre 1.0 release of ATF component mid October?</li>
	<li>JPT 2.1 (need release review)</li>
	<li>2009, Galileo Release</li>
	</ul>
	<!--
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>Reminder to be sure to check for <a href="http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/plans/3.0.1/pmc-bug-approval.php">"PMC
	Review" bugs</a>.</dd>
	<dd>Reminded to be consistent in approving defects (such as getting project lead review, documenting "stop
	ship" need, etc.</dd>
	</dl>
	-->
	<h4>Reference</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Planning_Lead">WTP Planning Role</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Patches_for_Release_2.0.2">patch process document</a></li>
	</ul>
	<!--

	Quality

	-->
	<h3>Quality: Neil Hauge</h3>
	<dl>
	<dt>Notes:</dt>
	<dd>Neil investigating "close old bugs" policy.</dd>
	<dd>Neil has estimated approximately 800 bugs (of 2000 untargeted bugs) could be considered "old bugs". He'll
	prepare a table and note to send to project with encouragement to PLs to handle ... something like either triage
	individually and assign a target, or mark with 'helpwanted' or mark in mass with a kind comment to re-open if still
	an issue (with reason for the mass update, etc.).</dd>
	</dl>
	<h4>Reference:</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality_Lead">WTP Quality Lead</a></li>
	<li>See also <a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_Quality">Quality Page</a></li>
	</ul>
	<!--

	User Experience

	-->
	<h3>WTP User Experience Lead: Kaloyan Raev</h3>
	<ul>
	<li></li>
	</ul>
	<h4>References</h4>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP_User_Experience_Lead">WTP User Experience Lead</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h2>General business?</h2>
	<h3>bugs to watch</h3>
	<ul>
	<li style="text-decoration: line-through;">Discussed need for <a
	href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=152461">bug 152461</a></li>
	<li style="text-decoration: line-through;">Also need to watch <a
	href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=245645">bug 245645</a></li>
	<li style="text-decoration: line-through;">Also need to watch <a
	href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=245573">bug 245573</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h3>Other projects to watch:</h3>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/sca-tools/">SCA Tools</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-pmc/msg01400.html">EMFT Texo project proposal</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/wtp-dev/msg06011.html">Maven Integration</a></li>
	</ul>
	<h2>PMC Calendar</h2>
	<ul>
	<li><a href="http://www.eclipseworld.net/">Eclipse World</a><br />
	Raghu and Neil have submitted.</li>
	<li><a href="http://www.eclipsecon.org/summiteurope2008/">Eclipse European Summit</a>. <br />
	Kaloyan "wtp project" <br />
	Naci will attend but (probably) not present. <br />
	Neil has submitted for Dali (and Eclipse link) <br />
	Cameron and JSF</li>
	<li><a href="http://www.eclipsecon.org/2009/">EclipseCon 2009</a>. September we'll start recruiting talks.</li>
	</ul>
	<hr />
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